Talk:Chara/@comment-36073590-20180704133156/@comment-33883848-20180722180207
"So, will you agree with me if I call Chara a slightly bad person that deserves just for slap for manipulating other child and putting them in life threatening situation?" Yeah they deserve a slap for this risky plan, putting Asriel in danger, and attacking the villagers but they didnt manipulate Asriel, their plan was really to free everyone and Asriel agreed with the plan when Chara was already dead because he didnt want to doubt of Chara"Chara please wake up i dont like this plan anymore no i said i'll never doubt of you", they didnt used any psychological manipulation. Here the definition of psychological manipulation:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulationI ""Fan service - material in a work of fiction or in a fictional series which is intentionally added to please the audience." That is what I wanted to say, but whatever." How its related at all with my response? And I wonder where in the there's any fanservice, fanservice is something that exists in FRANCHISES to keep audience but here its a game, not a sequel and even Toby was really surprised of it notoriety "To talk with people." Again if the game is that bad why are in Chara's wikia page? To troll people? Do you want to theorize about this game or say how bad its is? "And a thesis based on implications is a theory and not speculation... No, it is still speculation, opinion even if implication is being or has to be additionally interpreted. Only facts matter and implications are not facts." Implications is an indirect way for authors to show their intentions "With exception where it is lacking of logic." I know this game isn't perfect but can you give me any examples where it lack of logic?. The game isn't complete sure but its not "illogical ", i personally don't see any elements that lack of logic "It is still good argument to not interprete their words in any way and to not use it as excuse for their deeds." I never used it as an excuse for their deeds, premidited murder is still a premidited, attacking the villagers out of hate its still acting out of hate. And I don't "interpret"their words as they literally says that their both(by the way the Japanese official version confirmed that "our"is Asriel and Chara) that plan(free everyone) failed not their own one. I didn't add anything to their words and Toby fox kept those same words for the Japanese official version. And if you lack of arguments that doesn't mean that the game is automatically lack of logic etc.. "It is perforated, not complicated: contradictions, lack of logic, ambiguity. It is enough to not be sure about many things. This game doesn't give ground for accurately proving/disproving anything. Rivers of opinions mixed with beliefs flowing through this Wiki are best evidence for that." So are all theories pointless and false? That what you imply here. And their final speech is really logical if YOU TRY to understand it, they basically says they they were awakened thanks Frisk's soul Determination and that they were confused and didn't understand why they were brought back to life until Frisk's guidance showed why, they say that both reach the absolute power and can erase the world and move on to "the next one",if you refuse they says that you were never in control of the consequence of your actions(world's destruction) and they erase the world anyways, if you reopen the game they remind you that your actions caused the world's destruction and that they will recreate this world only if you give them Frisk's soul. I wonder where are contradictions here And the wikia is still something purely written by fans,its not Wikipedia where people have reliable sources.Wikia's pages are something that constantly evolves and change. Its not really a reliable source as it based on fan's interpretations. " NarraChara IS true. http://undertale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:140457 That does NOT make Chara good:When was it stated that the narrator had to be good? Sure, they may have had some motivations to do what they did at first..(https://undertale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:135687) ...But it's clear they intended for Frisk to do the Genocide Route. (The same second link) Plus, yes, there would be a war if Chara's plan succeeded. Frisk is still responsible though " The human ambassador we already discussed about it so why do want to start it all again? Anyways 1.I never said that Chara's plan wouldn't wage a war, if you were referencing to my submission, i said that evidences implies their plan was only to free everyone 2.they come to the realization of their purpose because Frisk showed them the reason why. And I don't understand in the case Chara dont provide the kill count in the ruins to find a person who could kill all monsters without any help("a perfect partner") then why do they provide the kill count in Snowdin, Waterfalls and hotland/core ? Without mentioning the fact that Chara is an impatient person so if they really wants a "perfect eradication"(which is NOT the case as they says" that there's nothing left for them in this world " when they reach lv 20 even so there's many evacuated monsters, so the fact is :they don't want a perfect eradication but to kill enough monsters to reach lv 20 and yes they says "we eradicated the enemy"but "the enemy" is likely everyone who attacked them and Frisk as Chara didn't see as enemy the rest of the monsters as they says that the enemy is already eradicated)they would provide the kill count in the ruins and test whatever Frisk would follow it ,so if they are "a good partner",and if their plan is really to eradicate the monsters its too risky for them to not provide any kill count in the ruins as nothing assume that Frisk would recept and fulfill Chara's plan. Plus the Charrator is optimistic if noone is killed and pessimistic with murders even in the genocide run(#dog food's bag). And Chara themself says that they didn't understand why they were brought back to life until Frisk showed them why "why I was brought back to life? You with your guidance I realized the reason of my reincarnation ". There is clearly not any indication that Chara found the reason themself, instead after asking this question they are immediately focused on Frisk's guidance and it role on the purpose of their reincarnation.They no longer trusted themself after their plan failed and decided to follow Frisk's guidance as there's no other person who they could follow every movement (that likely the reason why they describe what Frisk does, its a mean to follow exactly what they does) 3.There is reasons to believe that the narrator is friendly:they give Frisk description every time they check something, they try to keep their impatient temper"its a snow poof! Is it really a snowpoof? Oh look a snowpoof! Snowpoof.... ", they even give advice to spare a monster "don't pick on him","Easily excited by movement", and other advices too "All his attacks are hard to dodge " And the narrator even seems to care about Frisk, in fact they create cute poems"a cotton heart and a button eye you are the apple of my eye", they are exited to see them in a mirror "its you! ", they even call them cute"monsters wouldn't attack you that hard if you look cutter", which mean that for the narrator Frisk is cute but can be cutter with a ruban."Like to pet CUTE humans BUT YOU are allergic ", they regularly tease them too "You are intimidated by Froggit's strength. Just a kidding"